‘Two world wars were fought in the name of nationalism...’

, Mr Khalid points out that it’s the Indian state which believes in Mao’s tenet: ‘Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.’

What is nationalism to you

Individually, I don’t subscribe to any brand of nationalism. I would rather look at myself as an internationalist who thinks of a world without borders. One needs to look at these things historically otherwise one will always be trapped in a political agenda which is divisive and dangerous — two world wars were fought in the name of nationalism and several wars in the name of national security.

What’s the line dividing nationalism and patriotism

I will answer that with an anecdote from my interaction with the cops. During the first couple of days, policemen during the interrogation told me, “Jis desh ka khate ho, usi ke khilaf bolte ho, usi ko todne ki baat karte ho.” Initially I kept quiet, fearing that I might be slapped for my replies. Later, when I realised they are not going to do anything, I told one of them that the country is an abstract concept, let’s talk about that.

I asked him, “Kiska khate ho, kaun zameen banata hai, kaun beej, fasal ugata hai ” He said, “Kisan.” I pointed out that the government is planning to push through the Land Acquisition Bill, after that what will be the plight of farmers Where will he go, what will he do I asked him that in that scenario, “Kaun kiska khata hai ” He kept quiet. I told them that people trying to push through the legislation are calling themselves nationalists. A nation is made of people, and one needs to love them and treat them alike. To be a patriot means to be with the people. Nationalism is used for an agenda which is totally different.

Union finance minister Arun Jaitley recently said that this government has won the ideological war on nationalism. That people who were raising anti-national slogans are now forced to say “Bharat Mata ki Jai”.

No doubt it was an ideological offensive. This offensive was more to scare than to harm. It was meant to silence important issues raised by the students movement. If one looks at the last two years, it has been the student movement which has been at the forefront of major opposition to this government. Opposing its saffronisation of universities from FTII to Jadavpur, from JNU to HCU. Through this ideological offensive, the government thought that it would silence the students. But it has failed. If Mr Jaitley thinks like that I feel it’s a short-sighted analysis.

What are your views on Kashmir

The role of both India and Pakistan in Kashmir has been a blot on humanity. Both have not seen Kashmir from any other prism except for political, economic and strategic interests. There should be a resolution on Kashmir, aspiration of people should be given importance. It’s not a crime to say that people of Kashmir should take centrestage. It is not seditious to say that Kashmir is an important issue to resolve.

Your father had said that you are being punished because of his former links with the banned outfit, Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI).

A section of the media acted as a lynch mob. Certain journalists ran stories, posted on Twitter and somehow tried to establish some terrorist link. They did not even bother to check that my father had quit SIMI even before I was born. The way the media went after my father’s former links with SIMI, he had to come out and say that ideologically “I and my son differ a lot and I left SIMI before he was born... don’t punish my son for my links with SIMI”. He was with SIMI at the time when it was not banned.

You have been criticising Prime Minister Narendra Modi and accusing the government of targeting JNU...

Mr Modi is not an individual. Mr Modi represents a political ideology, he represents a political force which is the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and the Bharatiya Janata Party. Mr Modi also represents the capitalists and corporates. JNU stands against all these and has been at the forefront in opposing the communal, fascist agenda unleashed by the brahmanical kind.

How do you justify students’ politics in an educational institution

This is the thing media has been harping on: “Tum rajneeti kyu karte ho, tum padhai karo.” Why not politics We are above 18 years of age and as per the Constitution, we all should have the right to participate in politics, we have the right to vote. Democracy is not just about voting every five years. We are adult citizens of the country and have as much right to do politics. Venkaiah Naidu said, “Rajneeti karni hai to padhai choro aur rajneeti karo.” If BJP believes this then it should close down Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad. Actually they are not against students’ politics, they are against a particular kind of politics. A politics which questions them.

Kanhaiya Kumar has emerged as a national figure because of this movement

Mr Kumar is not an individual. He is associated with a political party, the Communist Party of India. He’s a member of CPI’s student wing, All-India Students’ Federation. Mr Kumar should use this moment beyond electoral politics or electoral ambitions of CPI. If he does that, he will do justice to the movement. If he confines himself to parliamentary dynamics, the victory, if achieved, will be short lived. Radical possibilities thrown up by the present moment will not be realised.

Charu Majumdar, one of the founder leaders of the Naxalbari movement, had later admitted that the annihilation policy followed by the Naxals was wrong. But it is still being followed by the CPI(Maoist).

If anyone who believes in Mao’s tenet — “Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun” — it’s the Indian state. Look at the land grabbing in Chhattisgarh. The barrel of the gun has become larger over the last 10-15 years when Salwa Judum was formed. Operation Green Hunt has been intensified under the Modi government. Police officials with dubious track records of using rape as a weapon of war have been brought back by the administration in Chhattisgarh. Policemen have been given full immunity to rape tribal women. Civil liberty activists have also been attacked. Senior journalists, including Malini Subramaniam, have been targeted. When we talk about violence by the Maoists, we also need to talk about violence by the state.

In an “aspirational India”, do you think your movement against corporatisation and rapid industrialisaion is relevant

Aspiration is a neo-liberal term and a dream. Over the last two decades, it has been proved this dream cannot be realised for the masses, for the people and students. We have million mutinies, million protests and million movements in the country fighting these neo-liberal projects. Aspirations have changed for a miniscule section. There are Rohith Vemulas whose aspirations will never get prime time slots on television channels. But these aspirations for a life of dignity remain. Such aspirations have multiplied. While there are million mutinies going on, the ruling class wants us to believe that there’s peace and prosperity in the country.

As a student leader how do you see the future youth in the country

Youth is a much-abused word. You have Rahul Gandhi and despite his age he’s a youth leader (laughs). So I don’t know how to look at this category of youth. But having said that, the way students’ movement has unfolded in the last couple of years, one can describe this as Students’ Spring, much like the “Spring Thunder Over India” during the Naxalbari movement. Students were leaving colleges joining the Naxalite movement. After that this is the first time a student upsurge has happened at such a scale. Mr Modi has come up with slogans, including the “Digital India” one. The students’ movement has called his bluff. Students are for affordable education, we want education for everyone, we are against land grab, we are against saffronisation of education, we are not for their divisive agenda, we are against Section 377. We are for a progressive, democratic India.

Any political aspirations

As a student activist, I have my politics. My politics has not changed. By political aspirations if you are talking of joining mainstream politics, joining a parliamentary party, then it’s a big no.

What’s your take on religion

I am an atheist and a communist.

How did the police treat you

Before we surrendered, we had put in a petition in the Delhi high court pleading there should not be a scratch on our bodies. We made it clear that we were willing to surrender, but you ensure our security. So the high court said that there should not be a scratch on their bodies. But police custody is not one of the comfortable spaces to be in. It was an intimidating, hostile environment, but no physical torture as such.

You have claimed that you did nothing anti-national. Why did you go into hiding then

We never ran away from the law. We were running away from the lynch mob. But the moment we got to know the police was taking advantage of our absence, we returned. Posters were put up against us, Mr Kumar was attacked in the Patiala House courts premises. This was the atmosphere which forced us into hiding. We had nothing to hide and after we got bail we stand vindicated.